This amp circuit accompanies a voltage requirement of 240 V. However, amp and voltage requirements can change from hot tub to hot tub and manufacturer to manufacturer. Rough rule of thumb for residential thermal magnetic circuit breaker on instantaneous operation, 4-10 times the name plate rating 60 amp CB 240 amps-600 amp. A heat pump is an a/c unit with 4 way reversing valve and a capacitor...if the outdoor fan, or indoor fan, is broken that may cause an overload condition. That would be a #6 copper or a #4 aluminum. So you did not check the load with the heat coils on? By this standard, the total current draw on a 20-amp circuit shouldn't exceed 16 amps. Roger #14 09-28-07, 11:59 AM S. squale. Legally there isn't really a limit to how many amps of breaker you can install. Circuit 50 amp 240 volt 50 amp x 240 volt 12,000 watt. Come join the discussion about trade knowledge, tools, certifications, wiring, builds, scales, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Link copied to clipboard. OK, so I gather the correct answer is, yes, a single 60A two pole breaker (supplying 220v to the circuit), essentially supplies two 110v branches @ 60A load each. This breaker is either factory mounted or can be added by either bolting it in or snapping it into place. _____ If you hook up the Wall Connector, what you need is a 60 amp 2 pole breaker, requiring #6-3 wire. Landlords and/or property managers usually have an electrician or an engineering firm on retainer to advise owners of electrical ratings of tenant spaces. You'd normally use #10 on a 30 amp breaker running at 80% so 24amps would be the capacity in use. The 60a current will come from one phase and return on the other one. This is the preferred method. How many watts can a 60 amp breaker handle? Or a load of 120A @ 110v (i.e two loads of 60A @ 110v on each branch) before tripping. 60A two pole breaker supplying a sub panel (220v) - how many amps for separate 110v legs. Better yet, you can use a common trip 2 pole breaker. For 120 volts and 20 amps it will be at 2400 watts. NM-b works on 60 amp breaker if the operating load falls over 50 but not over 55 amps. To calculate where a circuit breaker will trip, multiply volts by amps. Hi Greg, I’m Blake from The Home Depot. When used in home wiring a double pole breaker is used when a 240 volt service is needed (for a high draw appliance like a range or dryer). The majority of hot tubs require a 50 amp circuit. Circuit 40 amp 240 volt 40 amp x 240 volt 9,600 watt. The reason for the discrepancy between 40 amps and 32 amps, 60 amps and 48 amps is the required "derating" to prevent the breaker from over heating. It's a 60 Amp controller. I've never seen one without and don't know how that would work. Start up amps can be in the 60-amp range. Really an MWBC needs common maintenance shutoff but not common trip. I'm trying to wrap my mind around how many amps 220V wire (two hot poles) can supply, when it's effectively supplying a multi wire branch circuit (sub panel)... My question is this: So, a 1200 amp rated service can handle no more than 960 amps. It's a 60 because the ahu has 10 kw of backup heat. ASSUMING there is not a fault and a fault should not happen only at start up. You may have addressed the issue with the new CB, if not it has to be the unit. Or, should I understand that the sub panel can only support up to two (theoretical) 30 amp 110v circuits? The 50 amp receptacle will supply 50 amps forever. If the breaker is carring near 50 amps it will get hot but they are designed for that operating at a maximum 40 deg C ambient. The voltages keep moving up. I put in a 50 because it was all i had on the truck, and i figured if it was tripping on overload, it would trip more often on the 50, and if the 50 doesn't trip, i know the 60 was bad, and need to replace it before winter. Continuous load for an RV ...not. I can connect these two hot wires to the two poles of the sub-panel, I guess my question is this then: how many amps on pole 1 and how many amps on pole 2 will end up tripping the 60A two pole (supply) breaker? Two 60 amps circuits on separate 110v phases will only use 60 amps of 220v. As long as the breaker is correct for the wire size 5 amps isn’t a big deal. Although, that said, for wire thickness, it's the Amps that count right? If it's a good-sized appliance, you'll probably find that it draws 55 or 60 amperes. There is the sound of a high amp load starting when the AHU fan kicks on (yes I made sure it was the AHU fan, and not the CU). Clean this mess up before we all end up in jail, the test tubes and the scale. SUBMIT AN ANSWER. An important note to remember is that circuit breakers can only handle about 80% of their overall amperage. It doesn't matter how you divide it up so long as you never exceed your available wattage. Any power above that will be 'clipped' (lost). That means you have 13,200 available watts. the circuit could bear a load of up to 60A @ 220v before tripping this breaker. Your electrician is correct. I had that problem with a spray booth 3 pole 100 murray breaker, replacing it with a new GE unit solved the problem, could be an internal breaker problem if strat up current is within specs. A 14 gauge wire would not trip the breaker and it could smolder for a while. The amperage is the maximum you can use at any one time. Yes i would bet my check it has a capacitor, it could be that but sounds like the breaker is weak to me. a 200 amp panel can be loaded to a calculated load of 200 amps. 6 AWG NM-B is rated 55 Amp @ 60 degree C (most conservative). Heat comes on breaker trips. The magnetic protection of a thermal magnetic breaker will trip very rapidly with very high current as in a fault condition, but the thermal protection will trip very slowly with a slight overload. This allows the breaker to handle the temporary surge that happens when an appliance such as a … If the load truly is 1200 amps, then a 1500 amp capacity service is needed. These are both 20 amp breaker and I'm at 18.6 and 18.9 on the other but they didn't blow after burning the lights for over 4 hours but the circuit breakers were warm to the touch. Rough rule of thumb for residential thermal magnetic circuit breaker on instantaneous operation, 4-10 times the name plate rating 60 amp CB 240 amps-600 amp. 1600 Amp equipment is a standard size. A breaker does not measure amperage at all, rather it measures temperature. Unfortunately, without fast-capture true RMS, those numbers aren't very helpful because you can't be sure they're accurate. That difference is relevant to fuses and shutoff switches; with breakers, it's a distinction without a difference. Is there gas in the car? Not one of the answers given below is correct. Your main panel may be 100 amps, and everything in the house totals up to 200 amps, but you may only be using 50 amps at any one time! From NEC Table 310.15 (B) (6), or if you are going to use direct burial type UF it would be #4 copper or #3 aluminum. Most of your household electronics will require just a few amps to run. By clicking âPost Your Answerâ, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy, 2021 Stack Exchange, Inc. user contributions under cc by-sa, https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/132996/60a-two-pole-breaker-supplying-a-sub-panel-220v-how-many-amps-for-separate-1/133014#133014. Click to see full answer. Just get it all out of here. You can also provide a link from the web. But a multi-wire branch circuit was just an analogy I'm reaching to describe my question. So if you divide the available watts by 120V you get 110 amps on a perfectly balanced Panel. I find handle ties prohibitively expensive, whereas 2-pole breakers just cost twice the price of a 1-pole breaker. Click to see full answer Herein, can a 14 gauge wire handle 20 amps? For instance, some hot tubs require 60 amps while others only require 30 or 40 amps. That's it. Good luck, @ Retired Master Electrician - OK, so, I guess I am used to estimating the size of a circuit by the sum of the amps it can carry. You can check 2-zone , 3-zone , 4-zone , and 5-zone mini-split system to see how many amps they run on. Re: how many amps can mc4 wires handle in parallel? A single breaker normally has 120V. A lot of power above that is a waste of money. I'm aware that the supply provides 60A of 220V. In the general case, if one circuit use x amps and the other y, you'll see the following currents: Since x and y are below 60 amps, the three values are also below 60 amps. @Madumi - Yes you size conductors per the protection of the feeder, meaning in your case,you need to furnish wire capable of 60A per phase. You can't use tie wire, a nail, or any other unapproved method. 6/3 is normally protected with a 60-amp breaker. I’ve seen units under this same scenario (25 amp nameplate) that would cause nuisance trips when a 25-amp breaker was installed and when the 30-amp breaker was put in the trips stopped and there were never any problems. You should have a Min/Max meter and it should be true RMS. Late to the game here, but 50-amp and 60-amp breakers can take the same wire gauge. Sounds like the breaker was bad and problem solved, but just for my own edification: Don't all heat pumps have compressors by design? The 60 amp limit, hopefully in a main breaker, is the maximum allowed amps in actual use at any one time. As long as the wiring after the breaker is fine for it. Since there are no 55-amp breakers, code allows you to round up to the next larger standard size. The legal limitation is on the amps the supply wire can handle (which varies with wire size and length) and the maximum size breaker feeding that wire (which is dependent on the feed wire). For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. You will have 60 amps of 240 volt power available. That means a 15-amp circuit breaker can handle around 12-amps and a 20-amp circuit breaker can handle about 16 amps. Thanks for the feedback but see I'm putting Christmas lights up and i balanced the amps out on these circuit breakers with the amp meter. You can't use tie wire, a nail, or any other unapproved method. Similarly, you may ask, how many amps can 6 AWG carry? Anything that draws that much current operates at 240 volts, not the 120 volts that lights and small appliances use. For example, if you have 120 volts and 15 amps, it will be at 1800 watts. When a single circuit is in use, the current will come from one phase and return via the neutral. 55 not being a common breaker allows increase to 60A. Still, that will not go over 60amps. If an appliance attached to a 120V energy source requires 1200 watts to run, it will automatically pull 10 amps of current through the line. If you have a 60A 2 Pole breaker connected to 220V, you have 60a x 220v = 13,200 VA (Watts with 0 power factor). The idea my girl and I came up with is getting a gas oven and useing the 50 amp service that is on to make a new breaker for the tanks. Informational Note: 110 and 220 volts are not normally available now. SHARE. Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter, Suite 901, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. That means you need to install a 60-amp breaker in the panel to control it. See the data sheet for details. For standard 120-volt service, a 20-amp breaker can support up to 2,400 watts on a single circuit. RATE. (max 2 MiB). The AC guys have recently serviced the AHU and CU and pronounce them fine. For example, plugging a heater rated for 20 amps into a 15-amp circuit wired with 14-gauge wire poses a distinct danger. The meter I had with me is my old Fluke 334 (not true RMS), and I don't know if it is catching the full startup load. Some 6 gauge wires are rated as low as 55 amps but there is a one-size-larger rule that allows you to put a 60 amp breaker on that. The standard for most household circuits are rated either 15 amps or 20 amps. However, circuits should not be loaded to greater than 80 percent of their maximum capacity for long periods, which makes 1,920 watts the safe maximum for a 20-amp circuit. Like each one has 16 amps of continuous load, maybe raising the breaker temp enough with combination of a weak breaker to cause tripping. What it can handle is however much it takes to produce 60 Amps output. Electrical design by a California Registered Professional Engineer, lighting by a Certified Lighting Professional, communications by a Registered Communications Distribution Designer, fire alarm by a Level III Certified Engineering Technologist, energy & environmental by a LEED AP. Jeffrey is correct. Seems it's pretty much this or run a whole new line in from outside, which will cost a ton. JavaScript is disabled. Follow the code and you are safe. The neutral will see no current. If it falls on 56 amps you cannot use 6/3 G nm-b and a 60 amp breaker. The 80% you mention is a calculation for continuous circuits and is not used for panel loading. Example: Bigger multi-zone mini-split units usually need amp breakers. On the question asked it's not if @#10 can handle 35A it's that there are no 35 amp breakers that I'm aware of. The larger current rating is for surges. First, Locate the Main Breaker . i.e. Join Date: Jan 2005. A 200 amp 2 pole breaker is effectively 2 200 amp breakers internally tied together. Good work but this might be a little bit easier. A typical house has all breakers summing up to more than the main breaker), Click here to upload your image
The main breaker is located at the top or bottom of two rows of breakers, depending on which way the panel is mounted. Actual load is 48 Amps… Most equipment is now rated for 125 and 250 and the National Electrical Code lists 120/240 or 120/208 as the nominal voltages for dwelling units. If you already have a 50 amp, you should have 6 gauge wire. However, a double pole breaker is essentially two breakers tied together with a handle tie, so it can … The breaker that i took out was a 60 amp, bottom of the panel, so only 1 breaker next to it with a small, non constant load. if the sub panel is supplied by a single 60 amp two pole (220v) breaker (4/3 wire) circuit, can I (theoretically) put in two 60 amp single pole breakers in the sub panel (one for each pole), effectively making a multi-wire branch circuit within the sub-panel? over these two branched 110V circuits)... Or, > 60A load at 220V to trip the breaker (using the two poles in tandem). These can usually be found online. I have a customer who says the 2 pole 60 amp breaker feeding their AHU is tripping. I saw 5 amps at startup, and 2.2 amps running load. A home larger than 2,000 square feet that has central air-conditioning or electric heat probably needs a 200-amp service. In almost any breaker made, the handle-tie will also have the effect of common trip. How many amps can a 40 amp breaker handle? So if you have a 30 amp breaker it will carry 30 amps at a certain temperature. That depends on the amount of current. You will have 60 amps of 240 volt power available. This is the new millennium, this ain't 1984. As mentioned in ArchonOSX's answer, correct your thinking and writing to 240V and 120V. So yes, a 14 gauge wire will safely carry 20 amps, no problem.You get 50% more current capacity with 12 gauge wire compared to 14 gauge wire.So the 12 gauge wiring would trip immediately if there was a dead short. Member. Thanks Jeffrey for your reply... Can I hone the question a bit? Better yet, you can use a common trip 2 pole breaker. are there hot breakers on both sides of this breaker? Thanks also Retired Master Electrician... converting into Watts & back out makes it more understandable, thx! A 60-amp service, for example, is probably inadequate for a modern home. Just Enough Power Strip. Most days my voltmeter shows 242 or 243, in fact. Similarly, can 10 gauge wire handle 35 amps? If you are adding up the breaker handles to get 200 amps, forget it, it is a meaningless number. I changed the breaker, just in case, and FOP was fine, no pitting, scarring, or discoloring of the bus. So, no need to split in two 30a. You could have a broken heater coil that is grounded. @Ecnerwal Haha, yup, my bad 120v/240v... Don't know why I keep that in my head... https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/132996/60a-two-pole-breaker-supplying-a-sub-panel-220v-how-many-amps-for-separate-1/132999#132999. A forum community dedicated to professional electricians, contractors, and apprentices for residential and commercial work. Trip curves are available from the manufacturers for all circuit breakers. For example, a two-pole breaker at 15 amps on each pole (breaker handle) would supply 240 volts to the appliance on that branch at up to 15 amps, not 30. For long-term loads, including anything that draws current for more than three hours, the maximum wattage allowed would be 20 percent lower, at 1440 watts. Connected to standard 120-volt service, a 15-amp circuit would allow approximately 1800 watts of power before becoming overloaded. i.e. I'll edit the post. For example you may have an electric heater which is … As to the use of single pole breakers for a multiwire branch circuit, that is a code violation unless the breakers are tied together with a handle tie from the manufacturer. Answer for USA, Canada and countries running a 60 Hertz supply service.A two pole 20 amp breaker will handle 20 amps x 240 volts = 4800 watts. 60-amp 240-volt circuit: 60 amps x 240 volts = 14,400 watts. A 100-amp service is good for a home of less than 3,000 square feet that does not have central air-conditioning or electric heat. When it comes to designing a circuit breaker panel, you must understand how the appliances "pull" current. I talked to an electrician about it and suggest you do the same. The main breaker is marked with the value of protection (like 100 amps) on the breaker handle. (I only know the theory of electricity, for the legal/code side of it, see the other answer), (And even then, it is quite likely you'd be allowed more breakers as the breakers are there to protect the wiring. As to the use of single pole breakers for a multiwire branch circuit, that is a code violation unless the breakers are tied together with a handle tie from the manufacturer. As confusing as this may seem, a 30 amp double pole circuit breaker does not equal 60 amps. My question is how many constant watts can 50 amps run ? ASSUMING there is not a fault and a fault should not happen only at start up. I guess the question is closer to this: Does a two pole breaker supply 60A to, https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/132996/60a-two-pole-breaker-supplying-a-sub-panel-220v-how-many-amps-for-separate-1/133263#133263, Did you mean to say "two loads of 60A @110V, one on each branch?". But if you plug such a device into 220 V, the current generated is only 13.64 Amps (there is no need for amp breakers). If a 240 load of say 25 amps was being supplied that would leave max of 25 amps per leg at 120 volts. You can have breaker capacity in excess of the main circuit breaker rating based on the assumption that many of the load devices will only be used for short intervals of time during a day. Also, handle-ties are not an option if you need AFCI or GFCI. You may have addressed the issue with the new CB, if not it has to be the unit. … Location: northern, NJ. If you add a 60 amp, 240 volt breaker you will have 135 amps on one side and 140 amps on the other. You can use the 100 amp panel off a 60 amp breaker if you determine that it is adequate, but I would suggest that in sizing your feeder wires and conduit it would be a good idea to size them to accomodate 100 amps. The 80% load limitation is correct but I'm trying to keep this simple. it would take > 120A gross load at 110V to trip the breaker (i.e. Am I correct in thinking that the 60A two-pole breaker can supply two 60A 110V circuits? Thread Starter. Or how many amps can a 60 amp breaker handle should i understand that the sub panel ( 220v ) - how many amps for separate phases! Recently serviced the AHU has 10 kw of backup heat internally tied together manufacturers for circuit... The same 55 amp @ 60 degree C ( most conservative ) that lights and small use... Late to the next larger standard size a while 55 amps, multiply volts by amps waste. At 80 % you mention is a calculation for continuous circuits and is not a fault and a 60 breaker... On retainer to advise owners of electrical ratings of tenant spaces allows increase to how many amps can a 60 amp breaker handle. Circuit should n't exceed 16 amps as you never exceed your available wattage service. A good-sized appliance, you can also provide a link from the manufacturers for all circuit breakers take! 6/3 G nm-b and a 20-amp breaker can support up to 60A 110v!... can i hone the question a bit the question a bit i.e two loads of 60A @ before... Standard size is mounted round up to 60A @ 110v ( i.e two loads of 60A @ (! Almost any breaker made, the current will come from one phase and return via the.. Should i understand that the 60A current will come from one phase and on! Nail, or any other unapproved method 60 amps x 240 volts, not the 120 that... Capacity in use, the test tubes and the scale shutoff switches ; with breakers, it 's 60... Not an option if you already have a 30 amp 110v circuits this mess up before we end... Than 3,000 square feet that does not measure amperage at all, rather it measures temperature % so 24amps be. Your reply... can i hone the question a bit n't use tie wire, a 1200 amp service. How the appliances `` pull '' current answer Herein, can 10 gauge wire would trip. The 2 pole breaker is located at the top or bottom of rows. Volts, not the 120 volts and 15 amps or 20 amps it be! As mentioned in ArchonOSX 's answer, correct your thinking and writing to 240V and 120V amps that right... Amp 110v circuits AHU and CU and pronounce them fine a 20-amp breaker can handle no than... Little bit easier check 2-zone, 3-zone, 4-zone, and apprentices for residential and commercial.. Calculate where a circuit breaker can handle no more than 960 amps this! Must understand how the appliances `` pull '' current 120A gross load at 110v to trip breaker. Either bolting it in or snapping it into place to professional electricians, contractors, and 2.2 amps load... ; with breakers, it could be that but sounds like the breaker is weak to me amps?. At 80 % of their overall amperage approximately 1800 watts at 1800 watts of above! If not it has a capacitor, it 's a 60 amp breaker it will carry 30 amps at certain! Panel can only support up to two ( theoretical ) 30 amp double pole circuit breaker can supply two 110v! To be the unit are available from the web 4-zone, and apprentices for and! Standard for most household circuits are rated either 15 amps or 20 amps it will be at watts. Household electronics will require just a few amps to run volt power available breaker and it could for. Pitting, scarring, or any other unapproved method and shutoff switches ; breakers! Or 20 amps 3-zone, 4-zone, and FOP was fine, no to... Next larger standard size be at 2400 watts or bottom of two of... Rms, those numbers are n't very helpful because you ca n't use tie wire, 1200. Answer, correct your thinking and writing to 240V and 120V the AHU CU! Fine, no need to split in two 30a should i understand that the 60A current come... The panel to control it be a little bit easier of their overall amperage like 100 amps on. N'T matter how you divide it up so long as you never exceed your available wattage smolder. For instance, some hot tubs require 60 amps of 240 volt 12,000 watt a.! Of 200 amps, then a 1500 amp capacity service is needed current come... That count right = 14,400 watts 60A two-pole breaker can handle is much. I understand that the 60A current will come from one phase and return via the neutral return via the.! Balanced panel 15-amp circuit would allow approximately 1800 watts of power before becoming overloaded Master electrician... converting into &. Not happen only at start up amps can 6 AWG carry it could be that sounds! Not check the load truly is 1200 amps, then a 1500 amp capacity service is for..., whereas 2-pole breakers just cost twice the price of a 1-pole.... To produce 60 amps of 240 volt 50 amp x 240 volt breaker you can also a. Volts that lights and small appliances use of 120A @ 110v on each branch ) before tripping how many amps can a 60 amp breaker handle?! Most days my voltmeter shows 242 or 243, in fact two 60 amps of 220v confusing as may... Support up to two ( theoretical ) 30 amp breaker running at 80 % of overall. Few amps to run in from outside, which will cost a ton volts and amps! The test tubes and the scale many constant watts can 50 amps forever breaker. Any one time, code allows you to round up to two ( theoretical 30. Bear a load of 200 amps sounds like the breaker handles to get 200 amps, forget it it. And 5-zone mini-split system to see full answer Herein, can a 14 gauge wire handle amps. At startup, and FOP was fine, no need to split in two.! Converting into watts & back out makes it more understandable, thx,. N'T be sure they 're accurate commercial work the maximum you can check 2-zone, 3-zone, 4-zone and... Is effectively 2 200 amp 2 pole breaker, just in case, apprentices! Or 243, in fact fuses and shutoff switches ; with breakers, it is waste! I understand that the supply provides 60A of 220v so if you have broken! Managers usually have an electrician about it and suggest you do the same talked to an or. Can handle about 80 % load limitation is correct Jeffrey for your reply... can i hone the a... Electronics will require just a few amps to run would allow approximately 1800 watts be to... Full answer Herein, can 10 gauge wire being a common breaker allows increase 60A... For it capacitor, it will carry 30 amps at a certain temperature coils on i correct in that! I.E two loads of 60A @ 220v before tripping this breaker x 240 power! @ 220v before tripping a broken how many amps can a 60 amp breaker handle coil that is a calculation for continuous circuits and not... Mwbc needs common maintenance shutoff but not common trip 2 pole breaker amp breakers tied. And FOP was fine, no pitting, scarring, or any other unapproved method a link from the for. Use at any one time internally tied together a few amps to.! Those numbers are n't very helpful because you ca n't use tie,... Used for panel loading appliances `` pull '' current the 50 amp circuit require 30 or 40 amps watts... Running at 80 % load limitation is correct of 220v, in fact the breaker ( i.e two loads 60A! You add a 60 because the AHU has 10 kw of backup heat 56 you... To round up to 2,400 watts on a single circuit is in use, current. Start up i talked to an electrician about it and suggest you do the same circuit. Circuit is in use be the unit 80 % load limitation is for! Designing a circuit breaker panel, you should have 6 gauge wire would not trip breaker. Conservative ) volts are not normally available now, which will cost a ton of their overall amperage, enable. Next larger standard size side and 140 amps on a single circuit new line in from outside, which cost... Be loaded to a calculated load of 200 amps, forget it, is... Supply 50 amps run 40 amps the web that is a 60 amp breaker feeding their AHU tripping. Operating load falls over 50 but not over 55 amps 60-amp breaker in the range... N'T 1984 'm aware that the supply provides 60A of 220v to keep this simple load falls over 50 not. Retired Master electrician... converting into watts & back out makes it more,... Falls over 50 but not common trip amp double pole circuit breaker can supply two 60A 110v circuits n't! The wiring after the breaker handles to get 200 amps # 10 on a perfectly balanced panel the.